Hey GL-

[Lew]

Napoleonic question- I had always read the significance of the Battle of Trafalgar was that it killed any chance for an invasion of Great Britain by Napoleon, and for that reason it ranks among the most significant naval battles of all-time.

Now I'm reading that Napoleon had already abandoned any plans for invasion of England. If so, doesn't that diminish the significance of Trafalgar in terms of its historical significance?

[jumper69]

Napoleon was a pussy!

If he'd have tried to invade England, Patton would have kicked his ass!

[Lew]

Huh? The former governor of Kentucky? Napoleon would have grinded him up into a mint julep and sipped him on Derby Day. I don't know what you're smokin' these days...

[Sean Pa]

worth a read, We always celebrate trafalgar with great gusto and I am sure with out the victory, i would be reeching of garlic, smoke the strongest cigerettes known to man and wear a dodgy beret type hat.
http://militaryhistory.about.com/cs/...a/aa101703.htm

[Lew]

Hey Sean Pa-

that was a good read, and while the author does suggest that Napoleon had already abandoned his plans for invasion at the time, I suppose the door could have remained open. I had no idea it was celebrated in England to that extent, but I guess I can see why.

Personally, and not that I'm Capt. Naval Historian or anything, I would submit that the British victory over the Spanish Armada in 1588 would have to rank at least as significant as Trafalgar, if not moreso, and for similar reasons, although I am learning more about Trafalgar these days.

Salamis (roughly 500 years B.C.) is often considered the other great naval battle that changed history.

Jutland and Midway also get grouped with these three. I can't speak regarding Jutland. But with all due to respect to those who fought at Midway, I do not believe it deserves the almost mythic status it has received. At least in the case of Trafalgar, the Armada and Salamis, if you went back in time and changed the result, world history would have been changed.

In the case of Midway....go back in time and change it so the Japanese win....it still doesn't matter. The U.S. wins the war in the pacific, it simply might have taken a little longer. Midway is the turning point, no question, but if it wasn't Midway, it would have been something else eventually; Japan lost that war the moment they attacked Pearl Harbor.

And give props to the Brits, I had no idea the HMS VICTORY was still preserved, now I really want to make a trip overseas [img]wink.gif[/img]

[Sean Pa]

Yeah she is based here http://www.flagship.org.uk/welcome.html
about 30 miles away from me, we went recently,my son has developed a huge intrest in Nelson, its a real eye opener I am about 6 foot and had to hunch nearly double to get onto the gundeck in a space that was inhabited by 500+ men who slept, ate, and fought in that space. Unbelievable.
Obviously being from these parts of the uk Nelson has a Hero status I even drink in a pub named after him,but the celebrations this year were very special being the 200th anniversery, very impressive naval display.
Here are a couple of pics
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...gar/html/1.stm

<font color="#FFFFAA" size="1">[ November 04, 2005 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Sean Pa ]</font>

[Anton von Stockhoff]

2 components prevented Napoleon's invasion of Great Britain. Trafalgar destroyed the French Navy, Austria became aggressive against France and Napoleon needed to fight a land battle. It was this occurence that led to the name "Le Grand Armee" which had been stationed in Northern France to invade England, but turned east to face Austria instead.

HAd Napoleon been able to cross the channel with his troops, England would have fallen for sure. He said to the effect "Give me 12 hours control of the channel and I will control the world" And he would have...

On a side note Keith, aka Ickey, from the board told me a few years ago Admiral Nelson was one of his ancestors.

[cincygreg]

Hi GL.
Welcome back.

Speaking of which, anyone ever hear from Nickey and Ickey?

[img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Anton von Stockhoff]

Not I, have not heard from either of them in ages.

The only thing that really prevented Napoleon from controlling the Western Hemisphere was England's resolve to stop him. The rest of Europe was under his control. Spain would have even eventually fallen into line if Britain had not sent in troops under Wellington. England's steadfast and unwavering refusal to succumb to Napoleon's control truly shaped history different than it would have been otherwise. Nelson's victory at Trafalgar was a key element in Britain's success. If Nelson had lost that battle, history would have unfolded far differently. Nelson knew too his orders were to destroy Napoleon's fleet at ANY cost, even if it meant the destruction of Britain's fleet in the process. And yet poor Emma Hamilton (Nelson's mistress) died in debtor's prison, but that's another topic [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font color="#FFFFAA" size="1">[ November 04, 2005 02:32 PM: Message edited by: G L G ]</font>

[Sean Pa]

tommorow night is bonfire night, a huge celebration marking the burning of Guy fawkes and his Catholic Terrorist. A great night with the skys ablaze with fireworks, although im sure not many think of the reason now for celebrating.
I think its good to celebrate historical events, i do wonder if in 200 years time we will celebrate Saddam Hussains capture with an elongated years long mock trial [img]tongue.gif[/img]

<font color="#FFFFAA" size="1">[ November 06, 2005 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Sean Pa ]</font>